Discussion:
Assignment 3 due date
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Su-Lin Khaw
2006-06-15 01:26:27 UTC
Permalink
Quick question, is assignment 3 released a week too early? The past
assignments, we had CS246 due Thursday, and CS240 due the following
Tuesday, giving us a weekend to work on CS240. However, it seems that
for this assignment, we no longer have that weekend gap between
assignments; CS240 is due on Tuesday, and CS246 is due the same week
Thursday.
Jeremy
2006-06-15 11:46:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Su-Lin Khaw
Quick question, is assignment 3 released a week too early?
No. It is released according to the calendar on the website of the course.
Check it: http://www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~jbarbay/Teaching/UnderGraduate/CS240/
It is the calendar that I gave to the tutor and Instructional
Support Contact for CS246 when we met to avoid collisions.
(Even if you got it by small increments, they got the full one from the begining.)
Post by Su-Lin Khaw
The past assignments, we had CS246 due Thursday, and CS240 due the following
Tuesday, giving us a weekend to work on CS240.
So, you "work on CS240" only the WE before the assignment due date?
That would explain many things, especially if you are not a single case. :(
Even if you are only refering to the work on CS240's assignment,
you should work on it in advance, and not leave it to the last days.
Post by Su-Lin Khaw
However, it seems that for this assignment, we no longer have that
weekend gap between assignments; CS240 is due on Tuesday, and CS246
is due the same week Thursday.
In other words, you would like the assignments of CS240 and CS246 to
be due on different weeks. Thanks for pointing this out. I will
inquire, but I would suggest that you put pressure on the staff of
CS246: I already adapted my schedule to arrange things, it's their turn now.

Have a good day!
--
Jeremy (http://www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~jbarbay)
Farah Hanif
2006-06-16 08:16:42 UTC
Permalink
I do not understand the way teachers want us to organize our schedules.
We should be allowed atleast 2 weeks to work on the assignments.
Assignment 3 was released on the 13th Tuesday. And we have a midterm on
20th June, 7 days after and assignment is due on the 27th. Which only
allows us 7 days to work on it.
What is it meant by starting early? Should we revise for exam or work on
assignment?
In short, we should be allowed complete 14 days to work on
assignments, considering the fact that 240 assignments
are long, tricky and time-consuming.
I would appreciate if something could be done about this. As a
suggestion, assignment 3 should be due 2 weeks after the midterm.
Post by Jeremy
Post by Su-Lin Khaw
Quick question, is assignment 3 released a week too early?
No. It is released according to the calendar on the website of the course.
Check it: http://www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~jbarbay/Teaching/UnderGraduate/CS240/
It is the calendar that I gave to the tutor and Instructional
Support Contact for CS246 when we met to avoid collisions.
(Even if you got it by small increments, they got the full one from the begining.)
Post by Su-Lin Khaw
The past assignments, we had CS246 due Thursday, and CS240 due the following
Tuesday, giving us a weekend to work on CS240.
So, you "work on CS240" only the WE before the assignment due date?
That would explain many things, especially if you are not a single case. :(
Even if you are only refering to the work on CS240's assignment,
you should work on it in advance, and not leave it to the last days.
Post by Su-Lin Khaw
However, it seems that for this assignment, we no longer have that
weekend gap between assignments; CS240 is due on Tuesday, and CS246
is due the same week Thursday.
In other words, you would like the assignments of CS240 and CS246 to
be due on different weeks. Thanks for pointing this out. I will
inquire, but I would suggest that you put pressure on the staff of
CS246: I already adapted my schedule to arrange things, it's their turn now.
Have a good day!
--
Jeremy (http://www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~jbarbay)
Dk
2006-06-16 11:41:40 UTC
Permalink
As has been said, shifting the assignment dates back would force some future
assignments to have less than 14 days, or worse, push the due dates closer to
the date of the final exam...

Bear in mind that it is at the instructor's discretion how much time should be
given to complete an assignment -- there is no 'standard'. Many other courses
consider midterm studying to be part of the workload, and assignments are
scheduled around that week instead of through it. Yet, there are courses that
don't follow that pattern. Despite it sounding 'unfair' and not 'in the spirit
of learning', part of succeeding at university is being able to handle difficult
situations such as these. To that end, students don't deserve a break 'just
because', and any breaks given would only be sympathy on the course personnel's
side.

I totally agree with you that, the midterm being when it is, it wouldn't be much
in anyone's best interest to work on the assignment before the 20th. Granted, a3
is shorter than the previous and can be done in a week, I still think many
students would be very grateful for some leniency in the dates. One possible
solution is for the due date of a3 to be extended, but the release date of a4 to
remain the same. This doesn't break the course schedule. It also doesn't give
any extra time on the whole, but it allows people more room to work with in
their schedules.
Post by Farah Hanif
I do not understand the way teachers want us to organize our schedules.
We should be allowed atleast 2 weeks to work on the assignments.
Assignment 3 was released on the 13th Tuesday. And we have a midterm on
20th June, 7 days after and assignment is due on the 27th. Which only
allows us 7 days to work on it.
What is it meant by starting early? Should we revise for exam or work
on assignment?
In short, we should be allowed complete 14 days to work on assignments,
considering the fact that 240 assignments are long, tricky and
time-consuming.
I would appreciate if something could be done about this. As a
suggestion, assignment 3 should be due 2 weeks after the midterm.
Jeremy
2006-06-16 12:50:31 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Dk.

I will consider your suggestion of extending the deadline for
assignment 3. It has several caveats: extending by a few days till
the end of the week will just make it collide with the assignment from
CS246 (unless the instructor gives also an extension), and extending
it further will require the TAs to change the meeting date for
marking.
I will discuss this with Rita and CS240's instructor, and give
updates here later.

Have a sunny day,
--
Jeremy (http://www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~jbarbay)
Ghasem Zolghadr
2006-06-16 19:10:23 UTC
Permalink
wow, next week is going to look way too ugly for many of us who are
also taking math239 this term.
Farah Hanif
2006-06-19 17:05:09 UTC
Permalink
My only concern and suggestion was that for us students, there isn't much
time to work on the assignment. Working hard on assignments means working
better on exams and understanding the material much better.

An extension would be appreciated as it give us time
to work on assignments. We also have other midterms and assignments.

I would appreciate it if you "could" take this request into consideration.
Post by Jeremy
Thanks Dk.
I will consider your suggestion of extending the deadline for
assignment 3. It has several caveats: extending by a few days till
the end of the week will just make it collide with the assignment from
CS246 (unless the instructor gives also an extension), and extending
it further will require the TAs to change the meeting date for
marking.
I will discuss this with Rita and CS240's instructor, and give
updates here later.
Have a sunny day,
--
Jeremy (http://www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~jbarbay)
Jeremy
2006-06-19 22:46:03 UTC
Permalink
Hi all.

Farah> An extension would be appreciated as it give us time to work on
Farah> assignments. We also have other midterms and assignments.
I am aware of that. I moved the due time of assignments to avoid
collisions. I made Assignment 3 much lighter because it is during the
midterm period.

Earlier, regarding an extension for Assignment 3, I said that:
Jeremy> I will discuss this with Rita and CS240's instructor, and give
Jeremy> updates here later.

Here is the answer from Paulo Alencar, who is teaching CS246:
Paulo> We will not planning to make changes this time. If you can make
Paulo> changes to accommodate the student needs, that would be great.

I will discuss with Rita tomorrow about extending the due time without
changing the marking arrangements.
--
Jeremy (http://www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~jbarbay)
Jeremy
2006-06-22 23:08:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeremy
I will discuss with Rita tomorrow about extending the due time without
changing the marking arrangements.
Paulo did not change the due time for CS246,
and after discussing with several students
I took the decision *not* to extend the due date
of assignment 3.

Hence Assignment 3 is still due on Tuesday, June 27, 9pm.
--
Jeremy (http://www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~jbarbay)
Jeremy
2006-06-16 12:32:14 UTC
Permalink
Hi Farah.
Post by Farah Hanif
I do not understand the way teachers want us to organize our
schedules.
Please find attached a suggestion. Thank you for asking: I would not
have thought about giving one otherwise, but now that I wrote it I
realize that obviously, from my questioning in class, some students
follow another strategy and might benefit from this one.
Post by Farah Hanif
We should be allowed atleast 2 weeks to work on the assignments.
I totally agree. That's why each assignment due and release time is
separated by two weeks.
Post by Farah Hanif
Assignment 3 was released on the 13th Tuesday. And we have a midterm
on 20th June, 7 days after and assignment is due on the 27th. Which
only allows us 7 days to work on it. What is it meant by starting
early? Should we revise for exam or work on assignment?
You assume that working on the midterm is an independant task from
working on the assignment, which is just as senseless as assuming that
reading the slides and understanding them is yet another task,
completely independant from both assignments and exams.
The Lectures, the Assignments and the Exams cover the same
materials. Regular attendance to the lectures will reduce your work on
the slides, regular work on the slides will reduce your work for the
assignments, as regular work on the assignments will reduce your work
for the exams.
Post by Farah Hanif
In short, we should be allowed complete 14 days to work on
assignments, considering the fact that 240 assignments are long,
tricky and time-consuming.
I am sorry that you find assignments *too* tricky, and too long (I
guess that time-consuming is a consequence, not a separate argument?)
Assignment 3 is shorter and easier, although still challenging (I
hope), and Assignments 4 and 5 should be shorter as well.
Post by Farah Hanif
I would appreciate if something could be done about this. As a
suggestion, assignment 3 should be due 2 weeks after the midterm.
I am always happy to receive criticisms, advices and suggestions, and
I am particularly proud that I act on them more often than not.
I won't follow your suggestion on the release time though, because it
is totally impractical and based on unacceptable assumptions.
I already reduced the lenght of assignments starting from the 3rd,
which should address your concern on the lenght and time-consumption
of assignments. I will keep assignments challenging, so you might
still find them tricky.

Thanks for your suggestion anyway. Please allow me to give you one in
return: you might consider being more carefull with the use of the
word "should". Presented with a list of suggestions that "should" be
followed, most people will be on the defense and by default deny the
whole thing, and sometime will be even unable to listen to the
suggestions. This effect is even more true when the suggestions are
done in public, and when they are issued upward in any (conscious or
unconscious) hierarchy structure. Presenting your suggestions in a
less direct way will increase the chances that they are followed. Of
course, I am not following my own advice when giving you this
suggestion on a newsgroup.

Have a good day!
--
Jeremy (http://www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~jbarbay)

************************************************************************

Here is the way I "want" you to organize your schedule:
- in class, make sure that you understand each concept introduced,
in particular those summarized at the end of each lecture;
- after and before each class, read the slides and check if you
understand and remember the important points: the exercises given on
some slides are a good way to check that;
- each week, come to my office hour if there are some points in the
slides or in the lectures that you are incomfortable with;
- immediately after the release of the assignment, read it and think
about how much time each problem will take you to answer; think about
the hardest and solve all the easier problems during the first week,
finish the hardest during the second week; eventually give up on the
hardest if you can't solve it in a reasonable time;
- immediately after the release of the assignment's solution, read it
and check that you understand the solution; see someone's office hour
if you are incomfortable with some points;
- before an exam, read once again the slides, your assignments, and
ask yourself which key points you would cover if you were testing a
colleague on his knowledge in a very limited amount of time.

I think that this strategy will help you for most classes.
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